God is moving prophetically in the church today.

I have read tons about the ‘latter rain move’ which started out as a move of God but ended up something different.

Not everyone is responding properly to God’s prophetic move in the church today and that includes all those who reject it totally.

I really do get tired of all those who want to wrap everyone in a neat little package and give it all a title. Particularly those who don’t necessarily see themselves as part of a ‘movement’.

None of the excesses and junk sowed by the enemy can ever discount a real and valid move of God to re-establish the proper place of the gift of prophesy in the church today and those who are called to minister in that gifting.

I like your analysis the Dave Wilkerson issue. There was an interesting discussion about some of these practical issues on Jesse Phillips site ( http://earnestlydesire.blogspot.com/2007/08/question-of-week.html ) you may want to chime in on. God bless!

However you have misunderstood my point on OT prophets being 100%. I do not consider David Wilkerson to be a ‘false prophet’ but rather a faithful servant. I merely believe that the NT prophetic model and expectation is different than that of the OT office of prophet.

In fact, that was the point of my comments about Agabus. He was recognized as a faithful NT prophet and demonstrates that the model for NT prophets is different than that of the OT office of Prophet.

One of the things that really irritates me is how people will jump up and down about the Prophetic Movement and the problems there in, but what other things that are going on? I don’t hear too many people screaming about the fact that the Southern Baptist Convention has no way to keep sex offenders out of their pulpits. I rather think that might be just a tad more of a deviation from the purposes of God than whether or not a NT prophet has to dot every i and cross every t in a prophetic utterance.

I have read David Wilkerson’s stuff as well. I can point out specific prophecies he has made that have not come to pass. Therefore by your definition, he is a false prophet. By your standard, then, none of the work he has done counts because he is a false prophet.

Reality is that according to the NT, we only see in part and that through a glass darkly. All of the gifts, all of the offices depend on walking in intimate fellowship with the Holy Spirit. You can be totally accurate in your prophecies and be operating in a spirit of divination. The heart of the matter is source.

There is a reason that Paul spoke of Love in the midst of his discussion of gifts. Anything that does not come out of a heart of love, a heart that is supremely motivated by a passionate love for Jesus Christ is false, whether it be a sermon or a prophecy. Anything other than the divine love operating through us leaves us as a clanging gong, no matter what we claim our gifts or office to be.

From what I can see, the church in the rest of the world is doing quite well. The Bakers over in Africa are having a ball. Something like 7,000 churches planted, whole villages of Muslims converted and people walking humbly in fantastic power. South Korea seems to have it going on as well.

The problem with being the doctrine police is that eventually you have a church of one, because no one else meets your standards.

T

“Here is my problem with the theory that the role of the OT prophet continues today.

The veil has been torn. The role of the 5 fold ministry is to equip the saints for the work of ministry. If the office of the ot prophet is still in operation then we would need to go to the prophet to inquire of the Lord. So much for a kingdom of priests.

To me, the difference between the gift of prophesy and the office of prophet is one of authority.

The gift of prophesy for edification exhortation and equipping.

In addition to these things, the office of the prophet moves in correction, direction and warning.

The folks I disciple are encouraged to move in the first grouping and forbidden to operate in the second without it being judged y me or another leader. ”
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This is a really confusing issue in churches today. Think about being a woman and the confusion multiplies by leaps because you have the issue of leadership in the churches. The Bible says rather clearly women are not to usurp authority over men. Usurp simply meaning to take the place of. Yet usurping is accepted today as if it were a major doctrine in the Word.

I have been going through a transition for years in terms of re-assessing, the Word of God vs. The Word of pulpits. I have had to really keep a watch in the Word and repent for much over the years though some was done out of ignorance of Scripture.

The role of Prophet in the New Testament under the 5 fold being to some, to equip the saints, is riddled by movements within the five fold.

I don’t believe prophets in the New Testament differ in their calling before God (aside from the writing of Scripture) than those under the Old Testament. What is different it appears is that New Testament prophets function in the body of Christ and O.T. prophets functioned within the nation of Israel. Both are nations in God’s eyes.

When it comes to function God still awakes and sends prophets when there is a reason to. As far as in the five-fold operation, I think that is only part of their role to the body. Individually they have their separate offices to fulfill before God.

Agabus was not teaching when he came down from Jerusalem to warn of the dearth that was coming to all the world. But he was walking in the office of prophet. How many believe prophets today when they warn of similar things?

He also showed up at Philip’s home and detailed a prophecy of what would happen to Paul at the hands of the Jews of Jerusalem. We see both these examples operating in churches today.

So though I believe the five-fold was called to equip the church, I also believe as in the case of prophet, no one can call a prophet or ordain them, just as they could not in the Old Testament.

We have few examples of prophets in our churches today. True prophets are like Agabus. God never tells us much about him he just appears when there is a word from God and then he disappears off the pages of Scripture until the next time.

Like Old testament prophets he gives a word concerning things that are for the nations or will affect the nations.

His role in the church would be to equip the church in this area so that we are not deceived by the falsehoods in the church and he would be equipping others in the body who are appointed to the same ministry. Each of the five-fold equipping under their categorical role in the church would result in the body being thoroughly equipped and very difficult to deceive.

It is unfortunate that there is a lot of teaching about the five-fold and their leadership, but so little in comparison, to warning about false apostles, prophets etc. which the Apostles of the Lamb never failed to do.