What about Toronto and Brownsville?

What about Toronto and Brownsville? Were they moves of God or deceptions of the enemy? I would like to hear from some of you who actually experienced these moves and were touched by them in some way. I see so much negative junk on the internet.

John and Carol Arnott brought a team from Toronto to our congregation (Mission Viejo Vineyard) for a conference early in the move because he believed that our founding pastor Ed Piorek helped to kick off the beginning of the revival with a conference on ‘The Father’s Love’. 13 years later, I can still see the positive effects of that weekend on the lives of many that I know.

What did I personally get out of the Toronto move? Greater intimacy with God as a Father who really does love me and wants only the best. I knew all that theologically in my head, but it really makes a difference to really experience it and believe it. Also, even though I was getting on in years, the Lord was not done with me in spite of all the mistakes I had made in the past. He was specifically calling me to stick around as a ‘Caleb’ to help the next generation. To help rise up, train, and support a vast army of young people that are called to bring a major world harvest.

When I read about these moves on the internet, all I read about is all the negative junk that the enemy sowed. What the enemy did has overtaken and ended up characterizing these moves in the minds of so many who weren’t even there.

What about some of you who were there or were touched by these moves in some way? I want to hear from you. I would particularly like to hear from some of you who were touched by the Brownsville revival since I know so little about it.

Note: If all you have is negative comments don’t bother. Only positive testimonies will be allowed on the comment line of this post or comments from those who actually experienced these moves in some way.

**Update: Carl Thomas posted about his own Toronto experience on Revival Blog. *Top

Comments

Comment from slw
Time July 17, 2007 at 12:02 pm

Michael:
I wonder about Toronto because of some of the behavior and teaching that came out of it. I’m not well-versed in the particulars as are you, (I’m beholding to heresay unfortunately), but you have mentioned some of the issues of concern in past postings. The old metric of judging a tree by its fruit comes into play, I think. Presently, the soaking prayer business has me on edge, and I’m left wondering, “Why so much extra-biblical practice? Why so little cutting edge evangelism?” And yet, there may be a current within that truly questionable river that is smack dab in the middle of God’s will for all I know.

Brownsville, on the other hand, I see in a much more positive light. I was at the church during revival services, I personally know many folk that were there too, and the fruit that has followed seems better to me (I am A/G, perhaps I’m prejudiced). I posted (http://thundersounds.blogspot.com/2007/04/radical-invitation.html) about some of my reactions to Brownsville.

Like all historic revivals, both have faded with the passage of time. What would you say has been the lasting impact of either?

Comment from kathisharpe
Time July 17, 2007 at 1:18 pm

I was touched by Brownsville – years after things wrapped up and people moved on.

An evangelist by the name of Holly Noe (http://fanningtheflame.org) attended some of the Brownsville services and God birthed revival in her, in a big way. She credits those services as His avenue.

She preached some services at our church, last fall and this spring, and I was definitely touched by her ministry – the fruit is definite, tangible, and still growing and spreading from the revival at Brownsville.

I, like SLW, have concerns about Toronto… but like SLW I wasn’t there. Haven’t met anyone who was there. Can’t first-hand say much.

I have noticed that with both revivals, the critics I’ve read tend to focus on (what they deem) excesses that occurred toward the end of things… leaving me to wonder if that particular move of God ended in that particular location (resulting dispersal of “revived” people bringing great impact, and the people there didn’t catch God’s timing and flesh began to manufacture things.

PURELY speculation. Would be interested in what others think about that possibility, though.

Comment from Michael
Time July 17, 2007 at 9:13 pm

Thanks SLW and Kathisharpe for your comments.

It has been my hunch lately that those who actually experienced these moves had positive views by-in-large while those who didn’t, seem to be persuaded by all the negative accounts.

I experienced the Toronto move at the beginning before a lot of the excesses and negatives which seem to typify most current discussions. I am part of the Vineyard so knew or knew of most of the leaders involved.

I did not experience the Brownsville move nor do I know anyone who was touched by it. Because of that, I have always had questions about that move and have been somewhat persuaded by all the critical comments.

I have come to the conclusion recently that both were true moves of God that the enemy eventually sowed a bunch of garbage in and as Kathisharpe has said: “flesh began to manufacture things” trying to keep it going.

Comment from Carl
Time July 18, 2007 at 7:14 am

Great questions. I can’t wait to see if more people chime in.

I had a personal experience with Toronto that I want to document but would be far too long for a comment but I will do it shortly with a trackback here. But I have seen what you point out in your last comment.

When I knew a bunch of Vineyard people, Toronto was seen as a move of God’s love and Brownsville was somewhere between money making venture and side show attraction.

When I got in the AG, all of a sudden both moves of God changed. Brownsville was a genuine move of God lead by mature shepherds and Toronto was the home of barking dogs.

I have taken more than a little joy in pointing out to my friends Brownsville’s roots in Toronto (Steve Hill’s testimony of receiving the anointing at a HTB meeting which came from the Toronto move, Kilpatrick’s wife going to Toronto just before Hill came, Lindell Cooley went there just before coming on staff).

Either way, both were moves of God. I know lots of people who were touched by each. And there are other moves that impacted almost as many people.

Comment from Michael
Time July 18, 2007 at 7:35 am

Thanks Carl, I can’t wait to read about your experience. Your comments have been very helpful to me.

Comment from Carl
Time July 18, 2007 at 8:43 am

As if I had nothing better to do this morning:

http://www.revivalblog.com/2007/07/18/the-toronto-outpouring-my-experience/

Comment from Patsy
Time August 5, 2007 at 12:12 am

I was at Brownsville and I was a part of Second Baptist in Macon, GA when Gary Folds was there. He was at total Torontoite and brought that into his Southern Baptist Church. My current pastor got wrecked at Toronto and has never looked back.

The fruit of both of these in my life is nothing but good. I have grown in intimacy with Jesus as a result.

I just recently was at a conference with John & Carol Arnott. The love of the Father is such a powerful thing with them. I watched Carol pray for a guy who had severe back pain and God healed him. I talked to him several times throughout the week and it wasn’t in his head. The pain left and stayed gone.

I have my own opinion of the doctrine police and have posted about them in my own blog in regards to the current controversy around Patricia King.

http://rahabsplace.wordpress.com/2007/08/02/patricia-king-and-extreme-prophetic/

The one point I make in that post that people really need to consider is that whatever your Christian background is, at one time your group was persecuted by other Christians as being heretics. Read church history. So before people take up their sticks and pitchforks, they need to consider the fact that at one time others did that to their group.

If I could find a copy of Petra’s song Witch Hunt, I’d probably put it up on my blog.

Comment from Shawn Wilson
Time May 29, 2008 at 5:59 am

I was in the Brownsville Revival for 4 1/2 years. Every weekend throughout my high school and into my collage age years. It was amazing. I was great changed by this move of God as well as many friends and family.
I love your blog….keep it up.